1950 Olds Recording serial number 52420

Justin Mitchell recently submitted his 1950 Olds Recording to the Olds Register. After some discussion about the serial number, he forwarded a few photos.

The serial number stamped on the middle valve casing is 52420

But each of the valve pistons is stamped with 53420

Justin asked if I’d ever seen a vintage Olds instrument that had mismatched serial numbers. I have, but usually it is only one valve piston and the serial number is not a close match. My assumption in those cases is that one valve has been replaced due to damage. It seemed really odd that the serial numbers would be matching on all three pistons (53420) but off by one numeral in the thousands place from the serial number on the valve block (52420).

At first, we thought that since the three pistons were all stamped alike and the valve block was different, that the error might be on the valve block, but when I looked at existing entries in the Olds Register, I found that a Recording with serial number 52420 was a better fit with other entries than 53420.

Olds made instruments in batches and although there are no known production records other then from the early 1930’s, the entries in the Olds Register make this clear. By the 1950’s era entries in the Olds Register, there are typically several of the same model listed sequentially in the Olds Register. In this era, entries in the Register are approximately 2% of actual production, but if Olds made 100 to 200 of a particular model in a batch, then several of those are likely to be represented in the Register.

These are existing entries in the Olds Register on either side of 52420:

Serial number Model

52409	Recording trumpet
52420	Recording trumpet -52420 on valve block and 53420 on the pistons
52421	Recording trumpet

These are existing entries in the Olds Register on either side of 53420 that do not include any Recording trumpets.

Serial Number Model

52961	Ambassador trumpet
53205	Ambassador trumpet
53420	Recording trumpet -53420 on valve block and 52420 on the pistons
53425	Super trumpet

This analysis of the Olds Register entries is not definitive, because as additional entries are added, it is possible that other Recording trumpets could be identified in a batch that would include 53420, but based on the existing data, a Recording trumpet with a serial number of 52420 is a better fit.

I consulted with Robb Stewart about the process of when the valve casing and pistons would have been stamped with the serial numbers and if it is plausible that an error could have been made when the serial number was stamped on the valve pistons. Robb advised that the serial number would be stamped on the valve block first and then stamped on the pistons after they were honed. In 1950, Olds was likely using a dial stamp for the valve block and the dial would be changed as the next valve block would be stamped. Later, after the valve pistons were honed to a particular valve block, the pistons would be stamped using a stamp holder to line up the numerals to be stamped on the piston spring barrels.

There are three possible explanations for the discrepancy between the serial number on the valve block and the pistons:

1. The original valves were damaged and were replaced with a set of valves with a slightly lower serial number from a different trumpet. This is not very likely. Since Recording pistons are different than other Olds models (because of the offset middle valve) only a set of Recording pistons could be used and if this were to have occurred at the factory, then a new set of pistons would have been honed for this valve block and stamped with the correct serial number. If the pistons were replaced after the trumpet left the factory, it would be expected that any replacement pistons would either not have a serial number or would be from a higher serial number from a later production trumpet. Replacing the original valves with valves from a slightly older horn does not seem plausible.

2. When the valve block was stamped, the dial was off one numeral in the thousands place and the valve block was incorrectly stamped 52420. Later as the pistons were honed and then stamped, the correct number of 53240 was stamped on the pistons and the discrepancy was not caught later in the process. This seems unlikely because the incorrect serial number on the valve block would have been more noticeable. Also, the serial number of 53240 is not adjacent to an other Recording trumpets in the Olds Register.

3. The pistons were stamped with the incorrect serial number. This seems most likely. Once the numbers were placed in the stamp holder, it is not likely that it would have been checked until all three pistons were stamped. The numbers would have been corrected likely on the next set of pistons or perhaps after several had been struck with the wrong thousands numeral. This seems most likely since serial number of 52420 is adjacent to other Recording trumpets in the Olds Register.

We may never know, unless a new entry comes in to the Olds Register for either 52420 or 53420. Thus far, there are no duplicate serial numbers in the Olds Register (other than before the trumpet and trombone serial number sequences were combined.)

Thanks to Justin Mitchell for submitting his Recording trumpet to the Olds Register and Robb Stewart for his invaluable assistance.

If you have an Olds Brass instrument that is not included in the Olds Register, please send it in. Olds Register Submission Form.